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Discussion Starter #1
When I picked up my Acadia on 2/17 I noticed a sign at the dealership for Nitrogen. I had a brief discussion with my service writer but didn't think too much of it at the time. A few weeks later I was at Costco and found out that they now put nitrogen in all the tires they sell.

Apparently Nitrogen is supposed to provide: (according to the brochure)

1... Better Pressure Retention
2... Improved Handling
3... Higher Fuel Economy
4... Enhanced Safety and Reliability
5... Longer Tire Life
6... Better For The Environment

While my Acadia was at the dealership yesterday and today I had them put it in. The cost was around $60. They also did the trans recall.
All I can say at this point is that the Acadia seems to glide along. Handles great. Don't know if it was the trans adjustment or the nitrogen in the tires or both but it doesn't get much better than this.

The brochure refers to this website: www.getnitrogen.org

For clarification purposes, I have absolutely nothing to do with this company nor do I get any compensation for promoting nitrogen tire inflation.
Check it out!
 

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Hmm...read through their FAQs and it seems like Nitrogen fill won't affect pressure sensors, you can top off with air, and it can be used with any tires. Makes sense, given the chemistry involved. So, it seems like it just comes down to cost: 60 bucks per fill versus gas savings/tire life. Begs the question... is it really worth it?
 

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I like to use a blend of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen

The only situation where it makes a noticeable difference is in racing applications. Mainly it's the moisture content in regular "air" that's the problem.
 

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It'd be hard to justify $60. And since CostCo includes it free of charge, the cost to the dealer can't be much. Air is about 70% nitrogen, so the stuff is rather easy to come by.

I think Belle Tire here in Michigan also now includes nitrogen with all their tires.
 

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My paintball gun uses nitrogen tanks, costs about $2 to fill up a 68-88 cubic inch tank (and that's with the paintball stores making a profit). You can also get it very cheap at most welding shops. $60 seems way too high.
 

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Do we have any Bubbas on the Forum?

I wanted to know if any of them have tried Helium in their tires--car should get really great gas mileage since the car would be so light.

Smile!!

002
 

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Re: I like to use a blend of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen

zielinab said:
The only situation where it makes a noticeable difference is in racing applications. Mainly it's the moisture content in regular "air" that's the problem.
My understanding, as its been explained to me, is that nitrogen has 'larger' molecules than plain old oxygen/air, and as such won't leak out as much, which means your tires will maintain proper pressure for much longer periods, resulting in longer tire life and better fuel economy. (A friend works at a company that makes these filling systems.)

http://www.parker.com/ead/cm2.asp?cmid=9087&
 

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I did not get a choice with mine. The dealer put it in the car on the lot. The dealer sticker says n/a for the charge.
 

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Re: I like to use a blend of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen

oicu812 said:
My understanding, as its been explained to me, is that nitrogen has 'larger' molecules than plain old oxygen/air
Okay, out comes the chemistry nerd in me...hey, I have to use that college education sometime, right?

First of all, Nitrogen has a lower molecular weight than Oxygen (N2 = 28 atomic mass, O2 = 32 atomic mass). If a molecule has a lower weight, it will move faster and have more kinetic energy. (velocity squared x mass = kinetic energy). So if the mass is lower with Nitrogen, the velocity would be higher and the molecules would migrate more quickly. i.e., Nitrogen should leave the tire more quickly than nitrogen/oxygen mix.

Okay, okay, at this point I'm thinking to myself "nobody cares about the chemistry". I'm just saying that if the argument is that nitrogen molecules are larger and so they don't diffuse throught the tire as quickly...well, that's just bunk.
 

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Re: I like to use a blend of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen

Mister T said:
oicu812 said:
My understanding, as its been explained to me, is that nitrogen has 'larger' molecules than plain old oxygen/air
Okay, out comes the chemistry nerd in me...hey, I have to use that college education sometime, right?

First of all, Nitrogen has a lower molecular weight than Oxygen (N2 = 28 atomic mass, O2 = 32 atomic mass). If a molecule has a lower weight, it will move faster and have more kinetic energy. (velocity squared x mass = kinetic energy). So if the mass is lower with Nitrogen, the velocity would be higher and the molecules would migrate more quickly. i.e., Nitrogen should leave the tire more quickly than nitrogen/oxygen mix.

Okay, okay, at this point I'm thinking to myself "nobody cares about the chemistry". I'm just saying that if the argument is that nitrogen molecules are larger and so they don't diffuse throught the tire as quickly...well, that's just bunk.

Couldn't resist replying having worked for an industrial gas company:

Air is not Oxygen (O2).....Air is a composition of 78% Nitrogen (N2), 21% Oxygen (O2) and 1% of a bunch of other stuff (water included)....Air is what we breath and what most folks put in their tires....it has a molecular weight of 29

Nitrogen (N2) has a molecular weight of 28 and

Therefore, Nitrogen (N2) weighs less than Air, contains no water and so it expands less than Oxygen (O2) andwill leak more slowly

Therefore, the pressure will remain filled longer

Tires filled at the correct pressure longer will incur less wear, get better fuel consumption and provide for a safer ride
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Great reading all your responses. I'm sure I overpaid but I was curious so I went for it. I'm sure I could find a cheaper place next time I do it. However, I must say the ride seems to be better with the Nitrogen. Maybe I'm dreaming because I would like to think I put in $60 worth of 'AIR' for a good reason. I really don't think I'm dreaming. It will be interesting to see if any one else decides to do it and see if they notice a difference. Hopefully someone else will give it a shot and an evaluation.
 

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I am an aircraft mechanic and pilot all aircraft tires are filled with nitrogen because it is dry and tires last longer, which is a joke since you can ruin one with a bad landing. As for better gas mileage tire pressure is the same with or without nitrogen it makes no difference. Nitrogen is dry where compressed air has some water content in it.
 

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Re: I like to use a blend of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen

Nitrogen (N2) has a molecular weight of 28 and

Therefore, Nitrogen (N2) weighs less than Air, contains no water and so it expands less than Oxygen (O2) and will leak more slowly


You are very wrong:

Graham's law basically says that the rate at which gases diffuse is inversely proportional to the molar mass, and since air has a higher molecular mass than nitrogen, it should leak slower than nitrogen!!! (i.e. less massive gases diffuse more rapidly than more massive gases). This is freshman chemistry.

Very pure and very dry nitrogen is not what you get at Costco and dealerships (you only get that in chemistry labs)--so there are traces of water vapor. Sure, nitrogen might have benefits in race cars going 200 mph, since nitrogen will expand at a more predictable rate at those temperatures, but it pointless in passenger cars. Also, race cars like to use nitrogen for the added benefit that it won't contribute to a fire should the car catch on fire.
 

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Very good link on filling your tires with nitrogen. It's easy to read and accurate (as far as I can tell from my experience as a chemistry teacher). I was pretty sure it wasn't worth doing, and after reading the article noted below - I'm very sure.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/070216.html

Note: Oxygen will diffuse about .07 (that's 7 hundredths) times faster than nitrogen. You could actually figure out how much that would be if you know the volume of your tire. However, what we don't know is how "air tight" your tire is. Some tires may be so well made that the loss of any gas would be almost nil?
 

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Re: I like to use a blend of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen

nxs138 said:
Nitrogen (N2) has a molecular weight of 28 and

Therefore, Nitrogen (N2) weighs less than Air, contains no water and so it expands less than Oxygen (O2) and will leak more slowly


You are very wrong:

Graham's law basically says that the rate at which gases diffuse is inversely proportional to the molar mass, and since air has a higher molecular mass than nitrogen, it should leak slower than nitrogen!!! (i.e. less massive gases diffuse more rapidly than more massive gases). This is freshman chemistry.

Very pure and very dry nitrogen is not what you get at Costco and dealerships (you only get that in chemistry labs)--so there are traces of water vapor. Sure, nitrogen might have benefits in race cars going 200 mph, since nitrogen will expand at a more predictable rate at those temperatures, but it pointless in passenger cars. Also, race cars like to use nitrogen for the added benefit that it won't contribute to a fire should the car catch on fire.

I'll bet you're fun at parties!!!! ;D
 

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Re: I like to use a blend of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen

I'll bet you're fun at parties!!!!


I fly into a rage whenever I hear people paying $40-$60 to fill their tires with nitrogen, hence ruining every party I go to!

Selling nitrogen is an just like selling cars, and there are well known marketing ploys used to get people to pay for it. The old adage, "nitrogen molecules are bigger" is so wrong it's not funny: actually, both are about the same size and shape, both have about the same heat capacity and thermal conductivity, and both will expand/contract about the same at normal tire temperatures and pressures. And nitrogen, being lighter, should theoretically diffuse more rapidly! And, so add insult to injury, even Goodyear or Michelin don't go out of their way to recommend it for passenger vehicle.

See, I just ruined the party again!!!
 

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luvmyacadia said:
Great reading all your responses. I'm sure I overpaid but I was curious so I went for it. I'm sure I could find a cheaper place next time I do it. However, I must say the ride seems to be better with the Nitrogen. Maybe I'm dreaming because I would like to think I put in $60 worth of 'AIR' for a good reason. I really don't think I'm dreaming. It will be interesting to see if any one else decides to do it and see if they notice a difference. Hopefully someone else will give it a shot and an evaluation.
You wouldn't happen to be an Eskimo? If you are I have some Ice I would like to sell you. :blob: You probably could have went to a gas supply store and rented a tank of Nitrogen for $20 and filled all of your neighbors car tires with the magic gas. We use it in race car tires, but only for the simple fact that we know how much it will expand during a race.
 

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Wow, I almost forgot I was on the Acadia forum! I see this "debate" all the time on Jeepforum, especially from the off-roaders. Although I think the majority of them are using CO2 over Nitrogen. Yes the military, aircrafts, NASCAR and I believe NASA, all use Nitrogen in their tires. I've never tried so I guess my post can be deemed worthless ;), but a lot of people do swear by it and claim to get better gas mileage.
 
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