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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(Repost from FWD vs AWD ride quality)
Thank to everyone for the feedback. We are going for the FWD SLT 2. I just went to the dealer yesterday and was told mine would have to be ordered because they could find nothing close to it locally.The problem here is I won't have it before the September 30 dead line for the employee pricing,so he said don't count on it. Even at the employee pricing I think there is room to negotiate. I was dealing with a local dealer where I purchased my last car and that purchase was great . The price was great.(I did shop around before I went there) Now I went there first and they gave me the car $500 over invoice. I thought this was great, but the amount off didn't look right. I visited 4 other dealers and found one to be straight forward with me. They printed a dealer page where the others printed customer view pages. It list prices like this--
M.S.R.P w/dfc $39,890.00
Invoice w/dfc $37,181.65 + $783.10 advertising charges
GMS w/dfc $36,157.00 (employee pricing) no advertising charges
Supplier invoice w/dfc $37,777.32

I know this should be posted some where else but I was on a roll. I'm trying to figure what a fair price is. My last three vehicles I had 23% , 15% , 17% off sticker. I am told that the dealer get them for 25% off sticker. Any opinions?
 

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Not really sure what the question is?
What are the options on the vehicle?
So if you will have to order it, when do they anticipate delivery, and what will be the negotiated price since it will be after GMS ends?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The Acadia is a SLT 2 FWD
Silver Green/ ebony leather
8 pass seating
trailer package
VBS advanced remote
Rear dvd overhead entertainment system

M.S.R.P w/dfc $39,890.00
Invoice w/dfc $37,181.65 + $783.10 advertising charges=$37,964.75 will be after employee pricing ends
GMS w/dfc $36,157.00 (employee pricing) no advertising charges will be price if car arrives before 9/30
Supplier invoice w/dfc $37,777.32

I am basically being told to order it and it could come in before 9/30 for the lower $36,157 employee pricing. If not i'm looking at $37,964.75. I have never seen the advertising fees before and at $783.10 is was a shock.I only notice this after I left the dealer. How does this price look to those who have been shopping and purchased already? Fair? In the ball park?
 

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Sticker our SLE was $34,024 and with employee discount 16 months ago came up to $29, 728.00 then another $500.00 off that for rebate. I think they are now offering Employee discount on 09's even if you are not an employee or related relative.
 

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DeForger said:
The Acadia is a SLT 2 FWD
Silver Green/ ebony leather
8 pass seating
trailer package
VBS advanced remote
Rear dvd overhead entertainment system

M.S.R.P w/dfc $39,890.00
Invoice w/dfc $37,181.65 + $783.10 advertising charges=$37,964.75 will be after employee pricing ends
GMS w/dfc $36,157.00 (employee pricing) no advertising charges will be price if car arrives before 9/30
Supplier invoice w/dfc $37,777.32

I am basically being told to order it and it could come in before 9/30 for the lower $36,157 employee pricing. If not i'm looking at $37,964.75. I have never seen the advertising fees before and at $783.10 is was a shock.I only notice this after I left the dealer. How does this price look to those who have been shopping and purchased already? Fair? In the ball park?
I would say your price for GMS is great. If you won't have a vin # prior to the end of the promotion, I would ask the dealer to split the difference. Making the price, $37,060.85 including advertising charges.
 

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If Employee Pricing will not be available due to the delivery date, do you have Supplier Pricing available? This would get you around invoice price plus fees. If you don't have access to this, I would shoot for $200-300 above invoice. I also found that dealer fees vary widely among GM dealers, and it is possible you could find a dealer that doesn't charge advertising fees. You really have to shop a number of dealers (either in person or via e-mail) to get the best deal. There also is a chance that GM will extend the Employee Pricing another month and then you would qualify for this price even if you had negotiated a higher price.

Good luck! :thumb:
 

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Our final price was 45,999.00 out the door with taxes and financing of 2.9% over 72 months.
 

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Twindad said:
If Employee Pricing will not be available due to the delivery date, do you have Supplier Pricing available? This would get you around invoice price plus fees. If you don't have access to this, I would shoot for $200-300 above invoice. I also found that dealer fees vary widely among GM dealers, and it is possible you could find a dealer that doesn't charge advertising fees. You really have to shop a number of dealers (either in person or via e-mail) to get the best deal. There also is a chance that GM will extend the Employee Pricing another month and then you would qualify for this price even if you had negotiated a higher price.

Good luck! :thumb:
Twindad - $200-$300 over invoice is actually better than Supplier Pricing. Supplier Pricing is usually somewhere between $600 - $1000 over invoice depending on the car. Supplier Pricing really is not that good of a deal.
 

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I shopped around with Supplier Pricing (before the Employee Pricing became available on the 2009's) and was told by multiple dealers that the price was around invoice. I also found that I was getting better deals than the $300 over invoice that I had previously negotiated. I think that the benefit of Supplier Pricing may vary depending upon the options that you choose. But I am not an expert, and am very happy that I was able to take advantage of Employee Pricing when I ultimately purchased my Acadia.
 

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I dono?? ??? ??? Maybe I'm missing something here....."Invoice price & extra fees(advertising)." Why do we say advertising fees are added fees IF they are part of the GM invoice to the dealer. I've really never looked at an actual vehicle invoice until the last couple of weeks. I studied the invoice for my Acadia (picked it up last Sat) and the invoice on the Pontiac I'll pick up today. The invoice clearly includes advertising as part of the charge GM expects the dealer to pay for the vehicle. It is part of the invoice..... If a car dealer bought a car for $10000 would he sell it the next day or week for $9500??? If I were in the business--I wouldn't. :eek:hno: We know the dealer will not deduct the invoice price of a nav system or a trailering pkg---why should he dedect the advertising fees???? ???

If they sell us the car at invoice, all they'll get is holdback (3% of MSRP minus shipping--$1200 on a $40000 car) and any bonus plans GM may offer them. They better hope their service center is bringing in big dollars, because their sales dept is not.

No--I'm not in the auto business and I never have been. I'm just trying to figure out why we expect the dealer to sell us a vehicle w/o making a decent profit on it. :cheers:

P.S. GO BEARS
 

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That's a good point, BiggieBoy.
Although it may sound like heresy, and even though we would all like to make a major purchase (like an automobile) at the lowest possible price, the fact is that dealerships are in business to make a profit. There is always some conjecture about how well a customer or prospective car buyer is treated by the sales staff of a particular dealership. And, I am no different in that I have had a lot of issues with the way I have been treated in this run-up to ordering and receiving my Acadia (I opted out of dealing with one dealership and took my business to another).

I do, however, appreciate and respect the fact that in a lot of ways the salesperson selling the vehicle is no different than I am - trying to earn enough to take care of those things they need and want for themselves and their families. That is one reason why I am sometimes preplexed about the sometimes poor and even downright disrespectful treatment heaped upon the buying public by some salespersons. The addage of "the customer is always right" seems to be just a lost concept which is ignored and sometimes ridiculed.

I went through a lot of changes trying to understand the issues regarding "Invoice and Advertising charges" (see other posts regarding Advertising Fees), but after discussion with several other members of this forum, I began to understand that perhaps the dealership that I am currently working with were actually being honest about the offers they were making. I, as a result, stand corrected and essentially offered an apology. I found that I was so caught up in trying to best them on a deal that I did not consider that they were really trying to be fair (with the exception of a little disinformation, the "good" manager vs. the "bad" manager" vs. the benevolent "salesperson", etc., you get the idea . . .). In fact, after I began to accept the possibility that all salespersons were not trying to "screw" me over, I started to look at the process in a different light.

This posting address those misconceptions directly and simply, quote BiggieBoy: "The invoice clearly includes advertising as part of the charge GM expects the dealer to pay for the vehicle. It is part of the invoice..... If a car dealer bought a car for $10000 would he sell it the next day or week for $9500??? If I were in the business--I wouldn't. We know the dealer will not deduct the invoice price of a nav system or a trailering pkg---why should he dedect the advertising fees?" It was so obvious, yet I missed the point entirely at the beginning.

So, given what BiggieBoy points out, one can make a fair assessment of his "deal" only by using the posted manufacturers invoice as the basis to compare with any other deal. Charges, fees, taxes or "other charges" that are added after the invoice price should be considered seperately (IMHO).

As for me, all things considered, I am happy with the deal I am getting (which works out to $500.00 over dealer's invoice) before subtracting the GMS that is being offered. The trade-in or "down-payment" (the sale of my BMW to a private owner or CarMax) would be a totally seperate issue.
 

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detnick----

Thanks for the nice words.... :thumb:

Bob :cheers:
 

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I appreciate and agree with the point that car dealers are just like any other business in that they are trying to make a profit. I understand that they are going to try to negotiate a deal that enables them to make as large a profit as they can, and I am trying to negotiate so that I get the best deal possible. What bothers me is the games that some dealers play. I went to one GMC dealer when I was using GM Supplier Pricing. The only thing that we were negotiating was the trade-in value of my minivan. After driving my car to the "Used Car Manager" the salesman claimed my car was only worth $2,500. When I explained that I had received offers of $3,000 from one dealer and $3,700 from another, he stated "If we match the $3,700 would you do the deal today?" I agreed to this. He then explained that I needed to complete all the paperwork and then he would get his sales manager to approve the deal. After spending close to an hour completing everything that they required (while my 3 kids waited and tried to keep themselves busy), the salesman stated that the sales manager would only agree to $3,000. I was very upset and told them that I was misled that this was a done deal, and if they had told me an hour earlier that the most they could offer me was $3,000 then I would have left then. I am convinced that this was a tactic to get us emotionally committed to the car so we would agree to the deal that they offered. :angryfire:

There was an excellent and informative article in Edmunds about a writer who went undercover working at different car dealers and he confirmed the tricks that many dealers use. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html
 

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It makes me angry that dealers still do this stuff. I'm very happy to have a relationship with a dealer where I have gotten flat invoice on all my purchases and there is no jerking me around. My trade ins have been a flat quote that is as high as they go and have always beaten the CarMax price I have gotten before going in by 10-20%. So I have been totally pleased. It sucks that other dealers give GM a bad name. :(
 

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Twindad,

:soapbox:
I have posted a number of times about just the same thing. I have railed against the treatment of myself and other customers who have had to face shaddy salespersons and dealerships, incompetence, indifference and outright disrepect. What is really gauling is that we usually tend to approach the deal with such apprehension and fear of being ripped-off. The process should be somewhat enjoyable, in that you are making a purchase of a large ticket item that will meet your needs and satisfy your dreams (in some instances) as something that you have worked and saved hard earned money to buy.

It would seem that American car dealers and manufacturers would realize this phenomemom, would train their salesforce to act accordingly, thereby increasing the number of satisifed customers. And, as GAR says, "It sucks that [some] dealers give GM a bad name." If they were concerned about their reputation, they would find some way to regulate or control these abuses. :mad:

On the other hand, it is good to find salepersons and dealerships that try to treat the customer fairly, treat them with courtesy, respect, and still offer a good deal. Those ideas and practices would go a long way to improve the bottom line at our domestic automobile manufacturers (if someone would only let them in on the secret ::)). ;)

I have personally walked away from a "deal" because of a combination of unprofessionalism, fabrications, out-right lies, failure to do what was agreed, and a feeling of being lectured to (even to the point of detecting anger) by the salesperson. I had no problem folding my tent, demanding a refund on my "deposit" and finding another dealership. And, I will have no problem walking away from the current deal if it goes queer for some reason. That's still possible if they decide to change the figures, deny the GMS, change the Invoice price or some other thing yet unforeseen. Even though I would just love to get my hand on this Acadia I have been dreaming about, it only makes sense to walk away if the numbers are not right. :mad:

The article/link posted by Twindad is actually interesting reading. Bravo. It gives some real insight to how some car dealers operate and shines some light on how many customers are swindled. After reading the article from Edmunds.com, you may be just a little more aware of what you are doing when trying to buy a new vehicle. The article essentially points out that you could be stuck with 60 months or more (provided that you finance through the dealership) with paying a high payment with exhorbitant interest, without the benefit of use of a vehicle that is worth that high price. ???

Twindad and GAR . . . Thanks. ;)
 

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detnick said:
That's still possible if they decide to change the figures, deny the GMS, change the Invoice price or some other thing yet unforeseen. Even though I would just love to get my hand on this Acadia I have been dreaming about, it only makes sense to walk away

Nick,

In less than 1 hour I'm going to pick up the 2nd GM car I've bought from "our" dealer in 2 days. The Acadia on Sat & a Pontiac Vibe today. They supplied me w/ the invoices on both vehicles immediately upon my request. As you know, I got the Acadia for GMS . The paperwork on the Vibe has already been figured w/ GMS pricing. There was absolutely no game playing....

I don't think you've got anything to worry about w/ these folks.... :thumb:


Bob :cheers:
 

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I read the article referenced by Twindad when I was first shopping for a new vehicle for Mrs. Blue. It was certainly informative. I have family in the used car business, but they do not operate this way. My dad at one point was co-owner of a lot, one of my Uncles was a Chevy dealer before he died, and another Uncle has been in the same town for over 50 years and is a local icon of sorts (guess this explains my VNA :D).

They treat people like they would like to be treated, a lesson that unfortunately has been lost on many of the younger generations.

As for the original question (what was it?), on our invoice, we have the GMS price + $2258 state tax, $50 local, various small fees, and a $75 dealer fee. No ad fees. Our original negotiated price was $38,963.35 w/ all fees plus tax, which we were going to bail on due to the salesman not disclosing the $484 ad fee & then trying to pass it off as an increase in the destination charge plus trying to add the fees back in to the agreed upon price. For reference, our new total w/ tax/fees is about $40,084.
 

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It seems like ad fees are not included when using Employee Pricing. In addition, the dealer maintenance fee that my dealer charges was reduced from $299 to $75 due to the GMS special.
 

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Hey BiggieBoy,
Good luck and enjoy your Acadia (and Mrs. BiggieBoy's Vibe)! :blob: :clap2: I'm guess that your salesperson is very happy, being able to convince you and the Mrs. to buy a second vehicle. They should roll out a red carpet when you come back to pick it up (along with a year of free oil changes for the Acadia and the Vibe). ;D
Thanks for the update about our dealer and I'm hoping they will respond with no hassle when mine finally arrives. Based on what my trusty Salesperson "J" says, the VIN will be available Thursday and I shouldn't have any concerns about being "included" in the GMS program (I guess that's code for "Your new Acadia will be delivered to our lot before September 30th). ;D ;)

Blue,
Just looking at your numbers, I think you got a real good deal. Although there are several ways to make comparisons, the figures that you are showing with the GMS appear to be reasonable. The no Ad fees thing is really good. The ones cited in my deal seem to be pretty high (I'm sure they are different where you are). But eventually when they apply my GMS that figure may disappear. We'll see. ;) I'm guessing that your vast knowledge about automobiles, and GM products in particular, stem from your family having a history in the business. Lucky for us on the forum that you have decided to share your insights and perspective. :thumb: ;)

Twindad,
I hope you're right about the Ad fees not being included when Employee Pricing is used. I'll hope for the best. :)
 

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Hey Nick,

Re: GMS price on invoice

When you see your invoice there is just one GMS entry on it. It will read as follows: GMS: XXXXX.XX

This figure will be considerably less than the dealer invoice total which includes cost of vehicle, options, shipping charges and dealer & group contributions (ad fees). Try to get ahold of the invoice asap so you know where you stand. "J" should have no problem in getting you a copy. Good luck. :cheers:

Bob
 
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