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Just heard on the news that GM announced that the dealerships will not be reimbursed for the GMS discount that was given customers a few months ago. This means that the dealerships will have to eat that discount given the customer. Also, in doing more research on GM making it or not, it still looks like GM will not make it. Yesterday I was at a GMC dealership and asked if they would sell below invoice. They said no and strongly denied anything was wrong and that GM would indeed make it. They don't get it. The dealership had 12 enclaves on their lot that had been their for 2 months. The chevy dealership next door had pickups that have been sitting on their lot for over 9 months.
 

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Just to clarify the above post, GM is holding off on making incentive payments to the dealerships. GM is running short on cash and this is the least of all evils for GM corporate to do at this very moment.

They effectively need establishment government assistance by the end of the year or they will be forced to file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection...I personally hope they receive a loan from the government with attached concessions so they can complete the established restructuring and keep on keeping on.

Everyone loses if they fail.
 

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I agree totally. I'm very afraid of the consequences if they fail. This couldn't occur at a worst time. It just might be the thing that puts us over the edge. History could refer to it as the tipping point in the demise of our economy and our country. We are witnessing history in the making.
 

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So maybe the DEALERSHIPS hesitation to sell below invoice, is that they are afraid they won't get the holdback from GM which will affect the dealerships bank account. They want to sell it for more then invoice so they assure they get some $ now.

Just a thought
 

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I'm glad we got our Acadia when we did. I'm looking at a 2009 Dodge Challenger now with a $38.1K sticker. The initial offer from the dealer was $35.9K. Invoice is $35.3K. At least they disclosed the advertising fee, unlike our GM dealer. Many are happy to have paid sticker, and a few have paid well over sticker. If holdbacks go away across the board, this will negatively affect sales, which is what all 3 need right now.
 

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I'm glad I bought mine by Oct. 20th as well. I probably lucked-out with both the GMS and the $1,500 rebate offered at the time to GM employees. Add to this that the equiv. SLT-2 had a price increase of approx. $2K - and it all adds up to "real" money! I was looking at the local lot last weekend and was reading the sticker on an SLT-2 (white diamond :thumb:) and saw the increase in base price.

It's my understanding that the auto giants have already been approved for a $25 B funding, and that they (Auto) are asking for an add'l. $25B. Even if they filed Chpt. 11, they can still re-org. and work their way out. It would certainly be a different course, but I think that in the end they would work it out. IMO.

Smooth[/color] <><
 

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The original $25b was for research and development and not related to the current request. Although CNN tonight reported that the government is considering changing the conditions on the first $25b so it can instead be used for bailout.
 

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The initial 25b was also for help in "retooling" the factories for better efficiencies. I guess I am one of the cynical ones as I keep reading the majority of the bailout monies are to be used for paying the retirees healthcare costs and other things related to UAW contract obligations.

I just don't believe the american auto industry will change to any degree unless they go the C11 route. That will force them to make the dramatic changes necessary to hold costs where they need to be for long term success.
 

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IMHO, GM cannot survive without getting rid of UAW and the ridiculous costs associated with it - like paying somebody $25/hr to tighten bolts; pensions, etc. I don't want the government to use my tax money to pay pensions and healthcare-related costs for these people - because I am pretty sure that nobody will do this for me when I retire.
 

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Dealerships will not likely "eat" the incentives they have offered. According to a GM web site, the payback to the dealers is only delayed, not permanently withheld.[/color]

"GM said it plans to sell 16.4 million Suzuki shares, about 3% of the company's common stock, on the open market today. Suzuki said it plans to buy the equivalent number of shares using money from its internal reserves.

At the same time, GM told its U.S. dealers Monday that the company will delay incentive payments to its approximately 6,500 dealers beginning next week.

GM spokesman John McDonald said the automaker notified dealers of the change in an e-mail Monday.

Each of the next two payments will be delayed two weeks, McDonald said. He wouldn't say how much GM is saving through the measure."

Smooth [/color] <><
 

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Actually the word that I heard today is that you are way off on the $25 an hour. Right now with pensions, etc. it comes out to $73 and hour. If they make it to 2010, it would drop to $40 something an hour that is supposed to competitive with the foreign manufactures cost today. The more l look at this, I have to agree and say let them go the bankruptcy route. The airline industry did the same thing a few years ago and they are still around today with leaner and more effecient business model. The evening news tonight pretty much made it sound like congress is not going to do anything for them.
 

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JasonM said:
Actually the word that I heard today is that you are way off on the $25 an hour. Right now with pensions, etc. it comes out to $73 and hour.
It's easy to throw around hourly rates as if any of us really have the ultimate wisdom for running a multi-billion dollar international company. Granted, it's probably safe to presume that the union factor has added quite a large percentage to the cost of running a business. On a strictly simplistic example, consider most every auto repair shop in town (Santa Barbara). You can expect to pay $80-$100 / hour for their labor. Whether it's a brake job, changing a light bulb in the dash, or dropping the fuel tank to replace the fuel pump, you pay a steep hourly rate.

Obviously the technician does not earn $93/hour. But, his employer pays his direct rate plus payroll taxes, business insurance, health insurance, facility maintenance, equipment or facility leases, and the list goes on. I've worked for numerous companies over the past 28 years in Finance and estimating. It is very common to see an employee rate of $25-55 / hour get bid to the customer at $125 - $200 / hour.

My point is that we should not be so quick to "write-off" a company as ill-willed, evil, price-gouging, etc. based on their labor rates. I feel terrible for the thousands of families who will be directly affected by lay-off or plant closure. They (the employees) are no more to blame for the lack of auto sales than the thousands of families who have found themselves without a bread-winner in the Finance industry are to blame for the mortgage crisis.

I do agree, however, that a new business model may be the right solution for the long term (20-50 yrs). And that will no doubt come at the cost of less paid benefits to employees such as medical, retirement plan contributions, number of paid holidays, hourly wages, and retirement pension plans.

This is only my opinion, and I agree that it is no more valid than other opinions expressed.

Smooth[/color] <><
 

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Found this, These numbers are on the old contract negotiations that expired in 2007 I am sure they went up with the new contract. http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor. A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor.

The CEOs of Chrysler Group, Ford and GM earned a combined total of $24.5 million in salaries, bonuses and other compensation in 2006.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the typical autoworker produces value added worth $206 per worker per hour.1
 

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Found some more, this appears to be on the new contract.. NOT Bad

Entry-Level Benefits
Entry-level workers will be covered by a separate benefit plan, including the following elements:

• A cash balance defined-benefit retirement plan: GM will deposit 6.4 percent of workers’ wages into a portable retirement plan, which will accrue interest tied to the 30-year U.S. Treasury bond.

• Health care plan: Entry-level workers will be covered by a health care plan, with annual in-network deductibles of $300 single/$600 family. Coinsurance will be 10 percent in-network, with an annual cap on out-of-pocket expenditures of $1,000 single/$2,000 family. To defray these costs, GM will reimburse workers up to $300 single/$600 family annually from a flexible health care spending account. Entry-level workers will be eligible for dental coverage and a vision exam after three years, and for full vision coverage after five years.

• Supplemental Unemployment Benefits: Entry-level workers with at least one but less than three years seniority will be eligible for 26 weeks of SUB. That increases to 52 weeks (which can be extended) for workers with three or more years seniority
 

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Here goes. Best time to buy is Dec/Jan. I've been purchasing SUV's etc. since 1997. My last, an 08 Acadia SLT 2. Dealer had it on the lot. Retailed at approx $42K. Down the road for $34,442. Many many incentives then like GMC discounts, increased my GM card rebate to $2,000. Also bought at $1,000 under invoice and the dealer split his 1.5 % that they receive from head qtrs. That was approx another $600+. Did split his advertising costs, however didn't pay for his lot charge which only would have been around $350.

Not sure if I could duplicate that deal on a new one at this time, however when the time comes I'll give-er a whirl. Not all dealers do this (most want like $500 over invoic), as I contacted 7 and 2 were willing to deal close to the belt. Buy on line if you can and keep the ball rolling.
 
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