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Poll
Question: Do you think it is worth filing a class action suit to cover timing chains for the life of the vehicle?
Yes - 69 (63.9%)
No - 39 (36.1%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Class Action Suit for Timing Chains  (Read 27760 times, 62 Replies)
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bigmoe07
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2011, 05:18:53 AM »

I voted no!!!
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2011, 01:54:14 PM »

i will vote YES...

i remember when i have HONDA rvf motorcycle... it has a timing chain... they call it bullet proof engine... unfortunately the stopped production..its not because timing chain has a weak life but its too expensive for them to build an engine with timing chain....

the timing chain should last more than 20 years im guessing....

Honda Rvf  and VFR Race / Sports bike has been in the market more than 15 years and never heard a problem about timing chain...

i dont know but to me timing chain is better than timing belt
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2011, 02:02:46 PM »

How many out of warranty chains have been replaced?

The coolant/manifold gasket problem GM had(has) with the new orange coolant resulted in a lawsuit that paid much of the out-of warranty cost (I recevied 3 "awards").
But there has to be a volume of out of warranty work to be done before a lawsuit is organized...
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2011, 02:24:37 PM »

This is still a little early, as most lambdas don't have 100,000+ miles.
We wont really see these issues till 2012 -2014, when the powertrain warranties start
expiring in any kind of numbers.
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2011, 04:15:07 PM »

Has there been any timing chain issues with the 2010 models?
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2011, 04:17:48 PM »

none that I have seen posted on the lambda forums.
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2011, 04:33:28 PM »

2009 model year hit the lottery with the chains.  Most others seem to be isolated.
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 08:06:16 PM »

2009, 31K, no issues.  Late 08 build date.  Oil changed every 5 to 6k.  Just changed today, the old was a nice rich golden color.
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« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2011, 01:05:32 AM »

Are you losing any oil during your 6000 mile oil change intervals?
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« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2011, 06:25:04 AM »

Has there been any timing chain issues with the 2010 models?

I have not seen any yet, seems like they fixed the problems for model year 2010 before production.   thumbs up
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« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2011, 06:50:53 AM »

Are you losing any oil during your 6000 mile oil change intervals?


nope
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« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2011, 08:47:58 AM »

I have not seen any yet, seems like they fixed the problems for model year 2010 before production.   thumbs up

A little early to tell on the 2010's.

Plus don't forget, you have the new programming for holding off on the
illumination of the CEL and throwing codes.


This problem may just be "masked".
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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2011, 11:09:55 PM »

A little early to tell on the 2010's.

Plus don't forget, you have the new programming for holding off on the
illumination of the CEL and throwing codes.


This problem may just be "masked".

This is true - but if it truly is a chain failure that is being masked it will fail and I hope they post here. Otherwise, the updated code just brings back some sanity to the cam timing tolerances, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I'd rather have sane tolerances than a GM dealer tear the front half of my Acadia apart and put it back together. I'd be trading it in very soon after when something that major is disassembled - so many possible problems down the road.
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« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2011, 12:49:35 PM »

A little early to tell on the 2010's.

Plus don't forget, you have the new programming for holding off on the
illumination of the CEL and throwing codes.


This problem may just be "masked".

No one knows if this hides a real problem or if they are recalibrating a spec that was too tight.  It may be that most of the chains that have been replaced would have run a good long time with no problems, other than the CEL being on.  GM engineers may have determined that there is no problem here at all, it's just a false alarm.  New programming would prevent these premature chain replacements that inconvenience the customer, expose the vehicle to the possibility of new issues simply due to the number of things that need to be removed to get at the chains and cost GM a lot of money.

The conspiracy theorists in us want to believe that GM is hosing the customer, but I haven't seen any actual evidence to suggest that.
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« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2011, 01:05:41 PM »

No one knows if this hides a real problem or if they are recalibrating a spec that was too tight.  It may be that most of the chains that have been replaced would have run a good long time with no problems, other than the CEL being on.  GM engineers may have determined that there is no problem here at all, it's just a false alarm.  New programming would prevent these premature chain replacements that inconvenience the customer, expose the vehicle to the possibility of new issues simply due to the number of things that need to be removed to get at the chains and cost GM a lot of money.

The conspiracy theorists in us want to believe that GM is hosing the customer, but I haven't seen any actual evidence to suggest that.

Good point; has anyone actually experienced a broken chain  shrug  Not that I know of
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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2011, 09:18:18 AM »

No but there has been cases where they've updated the tolerances within the computer and soon after still had to have the chains replaced (decreased vehicle performance plus codes thrown). So I'm doubting this has to do with tolerances that are excessive.
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2011, 09:58:40 AM »

No one knows if this hides a real problem or if they are recalibrating a spec that was too tight.  It may be that most of the chains that have been replaced would have run a good long time with no problems, other than the CEL being on.  GM engineers may have determined that there is no problem here at all, it's just a false alarm.  New programming would prevent these premature chain replacements that inconvenience the customer, expose the vehicle to the possibility of new issues simply due to the number of things that need to be removed to get at the chains and cost GM a lot of money.

The conspiracy theorists in us want to believe that GM is hosing the customer, but I haven't seen any actual evidence to suggest that.

This is certainly about far more than an academic calibration of specs or even falling out of emissions range.  There may not have been any actual histories of broken chains but there have been several of degraded performance.  As things go, that is simply a lucky turn that the failure mode provides some warning.  We should all be happy that the first sign isn't a broken chain.
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« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2011, 12:28:40 AM »

Don't forget gm also redesigned the chains, going with a double roller chain on newer models and replacements - if I read that right.   shrug If that's true then they defaut to admission of the problem.
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« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2011, 11:49:34 AM »

I voted yes, emphatically.  For those of you who haven't had this problem occur and voted "no", I hope you have better luck.

I had a timing chain snap in my 2005 CTS with the 3.6 at around 62,000 miles...out of warranty for that year.  It was kind enough to allow the pistons to meet the valves, so the heads were shot as well.  The total repair bill came to over $5k.  To be fair, GM did cover the bulk of the cost for the replacement, but I was still left with a $1,000 repair bill for something that should never, EVER fail at 60,000 miles.  That's the whole point of using a timing chain instead of a timing belt. 

For those interested, I've run Mobil 1 for the life of the vehicle (came standard in it) and never let the OLM drop below 15% before I'd changed it.  By the end (just before the failure) it was consuming 1 qt / 1000-1500 miles, and I was told that this was "acceptable" by the dealer.  Fortunately I had that on record.  When they took the engine apart, it was sludge-free according to the tech.

Now I've got the Acadia with the 3.6, and to say I'm nervous about that particular aspect of the engine would be an understatement.  If there's even a chance that GM would extend the warranty on this portion of the engine, even if it's for an addition 50,000 miles, it would be worth the fight.  As the saying goes, "You'll understand when it happens to you..."
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« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2012, 02:38:15 PM »

I had mine changed in my 09 with under 40K kilometers and I still voted no.
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