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Poll
Question: Do you think it is worth filing a class action suit to cover timing chains for the life of the vehicle?
Yes - 69 (63.9%)
No - 39 (36.1%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Class Action Suit for Timing Chains  (Read 37252 times, 62 Replies)
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Copperhead13
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« on: February 17, 2011, 01:35:28 PM »

 Imagine the value of your $35,000+ vehicle when the general public learns of this issue  thumbdown

Just to clarify; this would NOT BE A RECALL,
it would be LIFETIME COVERAGE of the timing chains - if they fail after 100,000 miles.
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2011, 01:40:32 PM »

There is a Traverse member trying to do the same thing
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 08:14:44 AM »

I say No, And reason is...
Were talking about GM here!
Now think, do you honestly think you will get anywhere with a law suite unless you pay outta ur a$$ for a lawyer to rep suite?
Its GM, G.M. !
They are way too big to give timing chains any attention.
JMO!
But If anything, I would start a poll as to who has had issues, (lambda timing chains)
and get a huge gigantic list and submit.

Then they might do something about the repairs for people (us) goin forward if the voice is large enough, but as for a full file law suite, IMO waste of time and money.......

again JMO!!
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 08:53:16 AM »

No on the poll and here's why;  the life of the vehicle?  They will go out and I have replaced on vehicles that have had 70K plus miles.  Should they fix the problem on those that are going out too early?  Yes.  Are they?  Yes.  I have not read a rash of denied warranty coverage on this.  If they are fixing the problem, what is there to complain about.  Too sue happy in this country.  In my opinion.
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 10:49:28 AM »

Voted no.
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 11:41:31 AM »

also voted no--- Khansens post- is what Im thinking.
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2011, 09:18:14 PM »

I say No, And reason is...
Were talking about GM here!
Now think, do you honestly think you will get anywhere with a law suite unless you pay outta ur a$$ for a lawyer to rep suite?
Its GM, G.M. !
They are way too big to give timing chains any attention.
JMO!
But If anything, I would start a poll as to who has had issues, (lambda timing chains)
and get a huge gigantic list and submit.

Then they might do something about the repairs for people (us) goin forward if the voice is large enough, but as for a full file law suite, IMO waste of time and money.......

again JMO!!


If a suit is filed, it really doesn't matter what how big GM is, just matters what a court decides.
Believe me, they will care about timing chains when it's on their dime.

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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2011, 10:20:40 AM »

No on the poll and here's why;  the life of the vehicle?  They will go out and I have replaced on vehicles that have had 70K plus miles.  Should they fix the problem on those that are going out too early?  Yes.  Are they?  Yes.  I have not read a rash of denied warranty coverage on this.  If they are fixing the problem, what is there to complain about.  Too sue happy in this country.  In my opinion.

I voted no for the same reasons khansen expressed.  "Life of the vehicle" is way too long.  Some might argue that they should be proactive and have a recall to replace all of the "suspect" timing chains, but that's not as nice as some people might think.

First, what is the failure rate?  Is it 0.1% of the vehicles or 10%?  Makes a big difference in the cost of a recall and the value received (like it or not, a recall is in large part a business decision).

Second, what happens when the chain goes bad?  From what I am reading on this board, the engine doesn't get wiped out, so there is noting to be saved by making the repair before it "fails".

Third, why should GM inconvenience a large portion of it's customer base when only a small portion will be affected by this problem (kind of get back to the failure rate question above).  Your Acadia is not DOA when the problem surfaces, so people are still scheduling repairs and therefore there is no greater inconvenience to the owner by waiting for failure to make the repair.

Finally, and this is a biggie that no one ever thinks about, every time a GM dealer technician pulls an engine to replace a timing chain, it increases the probability that something else will go wrong as part of the repair.  I'm not knocking dealer techs, but every hose connection an wire connection that they have to disconnect and reconnect as part of the repair is another potential failure.  Every bolt they have to remove and reinstall is a bolt that can come loose.  If the vehicle has made it 10,000+ miles, any assembly issues there might have been have already cropped up.  Adding the chance for more assembly-related problems is not something that should be taken lightly.  GM probably has enough data that they know roughly what % of timing chain replacements will result in return trips to the dealer for new repair-related problems, so they have an idea what a recall would mean in terms of added customer dissatisfaction.

So..... a recall would cost GM a ton of money.  For that spend, they would not make life easier for any of their customer base, but they would inconvenience a lot of them, plus some would be further aggravated by a follow-up repair.  This makes a recall a bad idea.  As long as GM continues to honor the 5 year/100K power train warranty, I'm not too concerned.  It might be nice to bump that up specifically for timing chains on the affected product (maybe 7 year, 150K?), but do we really need a class-action suit for that?
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2011, 11:43:23 AM »

I think you're missing the point of a class action suit.
It is to cover chains that fail, not replace ALL the timing chains,
again ONLY IF THEY FAIL after warranty.

As happened with my honda element; there was a class action suit
for the windshields, a very common issue.
The class action forced honda to replace and or reimburse money spent to fix
cracked windshields.

The class action suit against GM would not force a recall, it would just force GM to cover timing chain replacement AFTER
the warranty coverage.  There would be no recall nor any inconvenience to costumers.
You would just NOT have to pay out of pocket when your warranty is over.
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2011, 11:49:43 AM »

I'm on your side with this Copperhead, but how many owner's have had failures after warranty?  Not many; I could see this being important if chains were failing after warranty, but the numbers don't support this. 
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2011, 10:07:53 PM »

I recognize a class action suit doesn't necessarily mean a recall, I just got on a roll Grin

So far it sounds like the chains that are failing are being covered under warranty, and there are several years left before the warranty expires (for 2009's anyway).  I just don't know that a class action suit is justified at this time.
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2011, 10:57:32 PM »

So then by the logic of "after the warranty expires" you will need to do one for water pumps (as many of those of failed way too early), burnt wiring on headlights, and the list goes on.

That's why there is a warranty and it expires at 100k or 5 years.  How many have failed because the owner didn't change the oil?  Too many factors, and once again, over time parts are going to fail.
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 11:07:48 AM »

Looks like an even vote on this issue; I just don't think you'll get enough people together to make this happen  shrug
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 02:47:59 PM »

Class action suits only benefit the attorney's never the ones filing the suit.  I mentioned elsewhere husband was involved in a class action suit that took several years to settle and the check receive not too long ago....$4.10.  Big woop!
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 07:45:47 PM »

Class action suits only benefit the attorney's never the ones filing the suit.  I mentioned elsewhere husband was involved in a class action suit that took several years to settle and the check receive not too long ago....$4.10.  Big woop!

A class action helped immensely with all of us who owned honda elements.
honda would not replace windshields ($700) which kept cracking in the lower corners.
eventually though a class action was filed due to thousands of windshield cracking.  honda insisted it was due to road debis hitting windows (BS)!
turned out honda had a design flaw in the frames causing it.
saved all of us multiple windshield replacements.  some owners had to be reimbursed for 3 windshields.

I only needed two replaced.

They do work when there is just cause.
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2011, 07:58:22 PM »

A class action helped immensely with all of us who owned honda elements.
honda would not replace windshields ($700) which kept cracking in the lower corners.
eventually though a class action was filed due to thousands of windshield cracking.  honda insisted it was due to road debis hitting windows (BS)!
turned out honda had a design flaw in the frames causing it.
saved all of us multiple windshield replacements.  some owners had to be reimbursed for 3 windshields.

I only needed two replaced.

They do work when there is just cause.

I neglected to add that if it is a safety concern and this is addressed through class action suits that that is great but if those who filed only were in it thinking they would get some "big bucks" that is very slim.

Thanks for enlightening me on your issue. 
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 10:04:15 PM »

A class action helped immensely with all of us who owned honda elements.
honda would not replace windshields ($700) which kept cracking in the lower corners.
eventually though a class action was filed due to thousands of windshield cracking.  honda insisted it was due to road debis hitting windows (BS)!
turned out honda had a design flaw in the frames causing it.
saved all of us multiple windshield replacements.  some owners had to be reimbursed for 3 windshields.

I only needed two replaced.

They do work when there is just cause.

But are people having to have them (timing chains) replaced multiple times on the same vehicle? 
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2011, 11:02:44 PM »

But are people having to have them (timing chains) replaced multiple times on the same vehicle? 

Sailfish had her's done at 30,000 miles with 3,000 mile oil changes.
Who knows if she would have needed another at 60,000 miles.
GM has done NOTHING to rectify the situation - and if anything they
have "swept it under the rug" by reprogramming the ECM to delay the
CEL warning from coming on during early/mild chain stretching.  They
are hoping the CEL will come AFTER 5 years/100,000 miles.

 
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 12:27:15 AM »

Sailfish had her's done at 30,000 miles with 3,000 mile oil changes.
Who knows if she would have needed another at 60,000 miles.
GM has done NOTHING to rectify the situation - and if anything they
have "swept it under the rug" by reprogramming the ECM to delay the
CEL warning from coming on during early/mild chain stretching.  They
are hoping the CEL will come AFTER 5 years/100,000 miles.

True unless they modified the timing chain there would still be a chance on it stretching again down the road.  It does not seem to make a difference whether you change the oil at 3000 mile intervals or wait until the OLM tells you there will still be failures in the timing chains on these 3.6 engines.

Sure I now have a 2011 Enclave with the 3.6DI but what is to guarantee that I won't have a problem with this as well.  Let me in on a secret if it does happen I think my husband will divorce me because he was shaking his head when I wanted to stay with the lambda's.

The big difference in my case, as from what I did before, is I will purchase my own oil and oil filter and I will either have Reichard or my mechanic Ted do the oil changes.  I will keep, as I have always done in the past, all the records of any work within a file as a precaution.

I will also make a notation weekly and place in the same file as to what the oil level when checked.

Like I said the usual plan was to keep the Outlook for 8-10 years and that didn't happen.  So now back to square one and this one...better darn well last at least 8 years.



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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2011, 12:55:57 AM »

But are people having to have them (timing chains) replaced multiple times on the same vehicle?

Nope and since they are being changed on GM's dime, I don't see this lawsuit going anywhere
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