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Author Topic: How to Prevent Rusting on your Lambda  (Read 3275 times, 24 Replies)
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50andunretired
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« on: February 17, 2012, 06:34:59 AM »

As I start this posting, I'd like to save some people time.  If you live in a dry climate and never see snow or salty roads then you might as well stop reading this now.  Click your back button and save yourself some time reading useless information.  I would not have done this if I lived in Southern California sunny

For everyone else that DOES live in the Snow Belt and sees snowy/salty roads every year (even though this has been a very mild year) then keep reading because you might learn something.

I originally bought some clear POR 15 about 12 years ago.  Can't really remember what I used it on.  I think it was a car.  Anyhow about 3 years ago I found the can in my shed.  When I shook it, it still was in a liquid state.  I proceeded to put some on my snow blower (it was summertime) and then forgot about it.  I used it the next season and didn't think too much about it.  Well the next spring when I put it away I was amazed at how well it had stopped the rusty area in its tracks.  It (the can) sat around until I found it a few months ago.  I noticed that my trailer hitch on my van was showing some good rusting starting to take place, so I used what was left in the can on it.

I then ordered a pint of black POR 15 to continue on, since the hitch was black too.
It arrived and I continued coating the trailer hitch.  When I got under the van I was in SHOCK!  You have to under stand; I have a 2000 Chevy Express van (bought Feb. 2001) which has NO rust on the outside body.  It only has 40,000 miles on it and looks very very good.  Now when I started crawling around underneath it, WOW look at all this rust!  So I started coating the rustiest spots I could find.

Some where along the line I decided that maybe I should look under the Acadia.  I noticed a few spots of rust starting to form on the trailer hitch so I dabbed a little on.  Then I keep looking and found the exhaust pipes in front of the resonators looked rusty. So I started to coat them.  Then the snowball, rolling downhill effect kicked in!

My Acadia is about 19 months old with 11,200 miles and has never really seen snow or salt.  I lived with it in Reno, NV for about 12 months, then Las Vegas for about a month, then I returned to Michigan at the end of July last year.  So you see, my vehicle has never been in snowy weather.  Heck I have only driven it in the rain a couple of times.  The point that I'm trying to make is that this vehicle should not have basically any rust on it yet.
 
Now to the real story at hand.  Crawling around under the Acadia opened my eyes to the reason that so many cars are produced each year.  Although the rust was nowhere near what the rust was on my van, it was like writing on the wall of what was to come.

Much of the aluminum was showing the start of corrosion, and rust was defiantly forming on many surfaces.  This led me to the realization that I might be able to stop it NOW if I did something about it NOW.  So I started to do a little testing of the POR 15 in different areas.  It wasn't to long before I made the decision, that if I under coated it now I would stop rust from forming in the first place.  Hence I began what turned in to a 2 month project with about 60 hours of work.  No I never planned on taking this long but one thing lead to another, and I still feel there is a little more to be done, however that will have to wait until summer of 2012.

Below I've tried to show what I did and why.  I know (think) that very few of you if anyone would do what I did.  However I tend to keep vehicles around and since this one hasn't given me any problems I felt it was worth trying.  I did use both the black and silver versions of POR15.  They do have a slight difference in consistency, so I decided to test their differences.  I painted one half of the underside black and the other half silver.  Time will tell which holds up better.  Knowing what I know now I feel that I might be able to do the project in a long weekend.  As some parts got painted twice or more because I changed my mind on what color the part should be.

When I previewed this posting I noticed the images were a little larger then I expected.  Sorry  facepalm
If you use the down arrow on your keyboard it will be a little easier to control the scrolling. 





                     


   
                  


                     



                     



   
                  



                  
   


                  
                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     



                     

Now I feel better  Grin
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 09:17:17 AM »

It looks like you got pretty much everything covered pretty well.

Personally, I wouldn't have gone to such extreemes, but then agagin, this is somethign you should NEVER have to worry about again, as long as you own the vehicle. Also, I wouldn't have put anything on the exhaust components. I think you might run into some problems there, as I don't recall if POR 15 is made to use over exhaust or not. I personally wouldn't put anything on exhaust, except ceramic.

When I get new vehicles, I use a good underbody coating as soon as I can. I like to use 3M, and I have never had any issues with it lasting up to 5 years, and this takes me about an hour or two to complete the entire vehicle. With that, I make sure that after every snow (I live in Kansas) that I wash the underside of the car extreemely well. I do this after every snow, and several other times throughout the year. I have even been known to lay down with rain gear on the car wash floor, to make sure the underside of the vehicle is washed very well. This again, has never failed me, and I have a nice clean looking underside of my silverado to this date, and it's a 2001, with 205,000 miles on the clock.
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 09:39:28 AM »

50andretired,

Excellent work.  That product WORKS!  Stops rust dead in it's tracks.  It looks like you're ready to take her to the 1st Acadia/Lambda car show LOL!  I think you'd win 1st prize.  Seriously, I've done exactly that to my old car.  Using POR15 and those throw away sponge brushes.  I think it's important to comment about that product's "stick to you" quality.  I guarantee you probably spent 3-4 days wearing that product before you were able to scrub it off.  Gloves and long shirt/pants are mandatory when using it.  If you don't attempt to clean it off whatever it touches...it's there for life, LOL!

One additional suggestion regarding seams.  I take old motor oil in a squirt can and since day one about every 6 months or so I squirt all the doors, hood and tailgate where the outerpanel wraps around the underside.  You will see a couple of holes on the underside where that seam is to allow you to do this.  I squirt the hell out of it.  Driveway does look oil spotty for awhile.  Oil and water don't mix.  This approach has been around for 60-70 years.  It works!

Another good product that I've found holds up very well is made by Eastwood.  It's a rust encapsulator.  I also used Eastwood's exhaust paint in silver to spray all the support rods of the exhaust system on my '09 Saturn.  I'm in the rust belt from day one with this vehicle...this is her 3rd winter (a mild one at that this time).  I'll take some pics this weekend of how that effort is holding up and post 'em here.

Again, this approach is not for everybody.  Obviously if you're in and out of your vehicles in 3-5 years, don't bother.  But, doing this does keep the vehicle solid and does give the next owner encouragement that the vehicle is worth buying as the previous owner took extra care of it.  Again, you're doing this to protect it and not hide anything.

Nice work 50!  I think depending on the exterior color, you could accent your calipers with black or red to make 'em pop a bit.

Regards,

Jim
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 11:16:32 AM »

Here's the topic back in August of '09 where I posted up my approach to the exhaust components rusting...as delivered from the dealer with pics showing before and after at that time.  I'll post up pics this weekend of what she looks like after 3 winters here in Michigan.

http://www.saturnoutlookforum.net/index.php?topic=738.0

Cheers

Jim
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 11:39:05 AM »

You told me that your vehicle was driven only 1 time in snow/salt correct??? since new and garaged since?

All that rust appeared from that 1 drive? 

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 12:46:30 PM »

Nice work 50!  I think depending on the exterior color, you could accent your calipers with black or red to make 'em pop a bit.

The exterior is Gold Mist.  If you look at the pictures again you can see where I did, at first have the rear calipers painted black.
That was because that was the only color that I had at that time.  I decided that the calipers would show, so I painted them silver.

I went through about 50 pairs of gloves and 50-60 foam brushes.
One shirt, one pair of pants and one jacket destroyed during the project.  I only wore those so as not to destroy and others.
Just the price you pay  Moon
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 12:59:05 PM »

You told me that your vehicle was driven only 1 time in snow/salt correct??? since new and garaged since?
All that rust appeared from that 1 drive? 

The vehicle was produced in Oct. 2009.  The first time I looked at it, it was May 2010.
There were 50.0 miles on it then.  So was it taken for a few test drives in the winter?  I don't know.

What I can tell you is YES I only know of 1 time that it was driven in the snow and that was in Reno NV.  Maybe a couple of times in the rain.
Yes it is garaged basically 100% of the time.  This year in MI it has not seen snow.  I drive my van when those conditions exist.

What I don't understand is why they don't make the stuff that they know can/will rust out of better material.
Then again if they did they might not sell as many vehicles because they would last longer.
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 02:09:18 PM »

Wow, it looks GREAT but I would never take the time to do all that to my truck.  Bang Head If you ever come to the Orlando area I would pay you to do my truck now that you are a expert at it.   Cheers
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 02:14:33 PM »

Don't forget about wiping down the door jams an all around the liftgate (with it open) during those winter months when you drive in areas with road salt everywhere.  People forget about those places and rust has no problem starting there as all that salty water after washing just pools in those areas and they will rust out long before anything under your vehicle as that can at least drain or just drip straight to the ground after washing.  I always take a couple extra towels when I go through the automatic car washes or to the spray wash so I can get all the door jams wiped down and all around the sides & tops of the interior parts of the door, etc.
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 02:16:15 PM »

Wow, it looks GREAT but I would never take the time to do all that to my truck.  Bang Head If you ever come to the Orlando area I would pay you to do my truck now that you are a expert at it.   Cheers

He can come to my town and do it since he's only about 30 miles from me!!  I'd pay for that if there was a gurantee on it.  Haven't ever heard of things rusting out so bad on the bottom of any new vehicle that it would incurr the need for further rustproofing.
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 02:36:29 PM »

if its like his Van...
then he plans on keeping it at least to 2020.
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 02:42:21 PM »

if its like his Van...
then he plans on keeping it at least to 2020.

As long as I have a trailer I will need something to pull it with.
The Acadia works and gets better mileage than a pickup or my van.

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 07:15:55 PM »

Here's some pics of my undercarriage after almost 3 winters here in Michigan.  The Eastwood Exhaust paint in Silver/Aluminum seemed to be holding up OK.  I didn't do the whole exhaust back in '09, just the supports.  Well, when you look closely at the undercarriage for rust, what stands out as having rust is the exhaust system.  Also the shafts to the CVC joints and the trailer hitch.  So my plan is to coat those areas with POR 15. 

I'm also including a couple of pics of the exhaust system after I sprayed a couple of coats of the Eastwood high temp exhaust paint.  I'm sure the area around the catalytic will just burn off.  Overall the undercarriage is just dirty.

I'll post again with a few more pics...met my limit

Jim
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 07:31:07 PM »

Don't know what's going on with the pictures but I'm unable to open what I've posted.

Moderators can you help.

Jim
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 07:46:56 PM »

I'm going forward with some additional pictures.

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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 08:44:58 PM »

Don't know what's going on with the pictures but I'm unable to open what I've posted.

Moderators can you help.

Jim
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OK, I know this is a hassle for some BUT you still cannot just copy and paste pictures on this forum

Everybody thought that when the Admin changed servers that the problem would be fixed.  It isn't.

I don't blame Admin, but it sure doesn't look like he got his moneys worth.

So this is what you have to do if you want "us" to see any of your pictures.
You have to use an online image hosting service like Photobucket, Flicker, or some other one that will generate a code to be used on forums etc.
Most of them are free to join, you setup an account and then upload your images and generate the code THEN you can paste it to your post.
 
Again a little hassle but it's the only way short of using a smart phone.

I hope this helps. 

This is the most active of the lambda forums and for some reason the server is maxed out and we can't add any more.
And life goes on...
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2012, 10:28:30 PM »

50,

Understand what you're saying but I've posted on here before using this forum's "Additional Options" where you are allowed to browse your computer and click on a picture in your computer to upload to this forum.  Always worked in the past but not this time.  I do have a photobucket account and will go that route.  Seems like an
"opportunity" for the moderators to fix.

Anyway, here goes via PHOTOBUCKET.

http://s1083.photobucket.com/albums/j390/6T5RUSH/2009%20SATURN%20OUTLOOK%20XR/

Jim
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'65 Vette, 327/365 HP, Heat, Music, Lights, Classic Auto Air AND KEISLER 5 SPEED...A RUSH!
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 11:14:03 PM »

Very nice setup.
The Eastwood paint is something I might look into.
If you look at my pictures you will notice I didn't coat much in front of the catalytic converter because I thought that might get to hot.

I've run the vehicle a little over 100 miles since I finished and haven't seen any signs of flaking or peeling.  This summer will be the real test.

How many miles have you put on since you used the Eastwood paint?


 
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2012, 11:27:25 PM »

50,

Thank you!  Let me clarify on this Eastwood paint.  I took all those pictures today and when I uploaded, the finished pics of the exhaust painted with Eastwood's paint appeared first, followed by pictures of what the exhaust looked like before I painted them...all done today.  So my '09 has almost 38K on her, purchased new.  The exhaust rust is the most severe of the underbody on her.  We'll see how well the Eastwood product holds up.  I do expect a burn off at the catalytic converter.

 Cheers

Jim
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'65 Vette, 327/365 HP, Heat, Music, Lights, Classic Auto Air AND KEISLER 5 SPEED...A RUSH!
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2012, 11:33:12 PM »

Yes the exhaust seems to be one of the rustier areas but don't for get about these areas.


http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g419/Readytakephotos/P1030613.jpg
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